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	<title>Comments on: The Painful Labor of Emergence</title>
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	<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/</link>
	<description>...exploring Soul thriving spaces - spirit, manifestation and virtuality</description>
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		<title>By: Duncan Work</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26331</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Work</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26331</guid>
		<description>Thank you for these images and evocative attempts to understand the beautiful-terrible contradictions of being human -  for the last several millennia and especially now.    

Interesting how suffering was so especially intense when many of the great religious teachers and teachings came to be - such as Lao Tzu, Moses, Buddha, Shankara, Jesus, Muhammad (thank you Karen Armstrong).  Compassion was the radical key in many of these religions - and taking action to help relieve suffering.   Now we can catch a glimpse of what it would be like to be beyond suffering, even though there is still so much of it.   We can start to see that there is much more to attain than relieving suffering, or transcending suffering, or experiencing personal bliss, without boundaries.  We can see that we can attain so much also within our boundaries, of the earth as a whole, and for all people.  This is an amazing vision, not of Heaven in the Sky, but heaven on earth.   

Is it really possible? Or are we doomed to keep muddling through, or worse, with suffering and beauty always side by side?  I think more of us than ever are reaching for the possible, in spite of it not being in our memory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for these images and evocative attempts to understand the beautiful-terrible contradictions of being human &#8211;  for the last several millennia and especially now.    </p>
<p>Interesting how suffering was so especially intense when many of the great religious teachers and teachings came to be &#8211; such as Lao Tzu, Moses, Buddha, Shankara, Jesus, Muhammad (thank you Karen Armstrong).  Compassion was the radical key in many of these religions &#8211; and taking action to help relieve suffering.   Now we can catch a glimpse of what it would be like to be beyond suffering, even though there is still so much of it.   We can start to see that there is much more to attain than relieving suffering, or transcending suffering, or experiencing personal bliss, without boundaries.  We can see that we can attain so much also within our boundaries, of the earth as a whole, and for all people.  This is an amazing vision, not of Heaven in the Sky, but heaven on earth.   </p>
<p>Is it really possible? Or are we doomed to keep muddling through, or worse, with suffering and beauty always side by side?  I think more of us than ever are reaching for the possible, in spite of it not being in our memory.</p>
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		<title>By: Mushin</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26206</link>
		<dc:creator>Mushin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26206</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Wouter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Wouter.</p>
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		<title>By: Wouter</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26193</link>
		<dc:creator>Wouter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26193</guid>
		<description>I think you asume too much. I also find it interesting that you only talk about the human species in your suffering and grief. All is not so important, I think we are on the same mission here, reducing universal suffering as a whole.  I do hope you can soften your grief in what ever your refuge is. 
Love and respect,

Wouter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you asume too much. I also find it interesting that you only talk about the human species in your suffering and grief. All is not so important, I think we are on the same mission here, reducing universal suffering as a whole.  I do hope you can soften your grief in what ever your refuge is.<br />
Love and respect,</p>
<p>Wouter</p>
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		<title>By: Mushin</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26187</link>
		<dc:creator>Mushin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26187</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if there is a choice involved here, Brad. Being critical is not pathological, in my view - although it can be. Being critical is mostly a sign of either &#039;really wanting to know what&#039;s what&quot;, or of finding the present situation to be in need of change or transformation. And we&#039;ll most likely agree on that the present human situation does require major change.

From the moment we&#039;re born life seems to be full of separations; first from mother and afterwards from many beloved people. The older we grow the more often we&#039;ll experience separation. So yes, consciousness - as in self-consciousness - does require knowing a difference between self and other to make any sense, and thus some type of  separation. There is of course oceanic unity and transcendent unity/non-separation, but both are very personal experiences mostly that do not translate into a more encompassing unity in social, economic or political life, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if there is a choice involved here, Brad. Being critical is not pathological, in my view &#8211; although it can be. Being critical is mostly a sign of either &#8216;really wanting to know what&#8217;s what&#8221;, or of finding the present situation to be in need of change or transformation. And we&#8217;ll most likely agree on that the present human situation does require major change.</p>
<p>From the moment we&#8217;re born life seems to be full of separations; first from mother and afterwards from many beloved people. The older we grow the more often we&#8217;ll experience separation. So yes, consciousness &#8211; as in self-consciousness &#8211; does require knowing a difference between self and other to make any sense, and thus some type of  separation. There is of course oceanic unity and transcendent unity/non-separation, but both are very personal experiences mostly that do not translate into a more encompassing unity in social, economic or political life, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: Mushin</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26185</link>
		<dc:creator>Mushin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26185</guid>
		<description>Hi Wouter, 

you&#039;re right, of course, humanity has been in love with war (great book on this, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/1594200114?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=blogmushinde-21&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1638&amp;creative=19454&amp;creativeASIN=1594200114&quot;&gt;A Terrible Love of War&lt;/a&gt; by James Hillman) since time immemorial. Creating ecological disaster is also not new, the ancient Greeks&#039; deforestation of the Greek islands for the ships has created the Greece we know today, for instance. So we&#039;ve got reason to mourn and grieve for our species&#039; ferocious past. It&#039;s also clear that we&#039;re not alone in that kind of behavior, even though the intensity we&#039;ve developed is unsurpassed, and there is a world of difference there.

Also in human being&#039;s development there is a lot of differentiation to make: Toddlers fighting ferociously over some bucket in a sandbox is very much different from two grown ups using sticks and stones or knives and guns. And this again is a world of difference between two gangs violently clashing or nations at war as in in WW2. And I would agree that consciousness does play a role in this, even though I would say that conscious suffering or unconscious suffering is exactly the same, the only difference is that a conscious being can reflect on the suffering it receives or meats out, and that it can take things personal - having a persona that self-reflects.

I do see the situation we&#039;re in as an evolutionary one in which it is decided whether we will remain an important species on this planet or not. As I said in my blog, I&#039;m sure that a new humanity, even a new world is emerging under pain, and that we are in that labor together - a situation that your wonderful wife will be in individually soon; that will allow you to appreciate where I&#039;m coming from in a whole new way; I&#039;ve been present at the birth of both Roosje and Felix, and I can tell you that NOT being the one who does the birthing can be very taxing indeed :)

I know that you, as a Buddhist, are convinced of the first Noble Truth, that &quot;birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair are suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.&quot; And that ypou believe that it is caused by what is stated in the second Noble Truth, that &quot;... it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there, that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination.&quot; And I also know that you are working very hard in your own life to walk the Path that is outlined in the 3rd &amp; 4th Noble Truth. 

My outlook, as depicted in this and other recent blogs, differs a little bit in that I do not believe that the cause of suffering is &quot;clinging&quot; or attachment and that therefor we can end it by (through any Path) refraining from clinging. I don&#039;t think that suffering as a cause in the proper sense of, for instance, B is caused by A. The whole type of thinking that attributes all phenomena - like suffering - to causes - like attachment - was appropriate to that phase of human development (maybe we can call it the &#039;causal phase&#039;). In our times we&#039;ve come to understand a bit more of the enormous complexity of both the physical as the non-physical world and how causal influences are important but equally important are intention, goal (in the sense of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telos_%28philosophy%29&quot;&gt;telos&lt;/a&gt;), inter-perspective (who is calling on what, and who is answering to what; a force that is part of what I would call the &quot;Living Field&quot;) and more.

Becoming conscious, and then being conscious of being conscious - deeply exploring what it means/is to &#039;be conscious - is part of our evolutionary development but this does move, at least that is what I&#039;m certain of and live from occasionally, beyond consciousness; consciousness is but one fruit on the tree of life and that what we are in truth is &#039;deeper&#039; than consciousness. Maybe this understanding helps me in suffering and crying with humanity when that is present for me, and not being too disturbed by the painful birthing process that we&#039;re going through on this planet... who knows?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Wouter, </p>
<p>you&#8217;re right, of course, humanity has been in love with war (great book on this, <a href="http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/1594200114?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=blogmushinde-21&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1638&amp;creative=19454&amp;creativeASIN=1594200114">A Terrible Love of War</a> by James Hillman) since time immemorial. Creating ecological disaster is also not new, the ancient Greeks&#8217; deforestation of the Greek islands for the ships has created the Greece we know today, for instance. So we&#8217;ve got reason to mourn and grieve for our species&#8217; ferocious past. It&#8217;s also clear that we&#8217;re not alone in that kind of behavior, even though the intensity we&#8217;ve developed is unsurpassed, and there is a world of difference there.</p>
<p>Also in human being&#8217;s development there is a lot of differentiation to make: Toddlers fighting ferociously over some bucket in a sandbox is very much different from two grown ups using sticks and stones or knives and guns. And this again is a world of difference between two gangs violently clashing or nations at war as in in WW2. And I would agree that consciousness does play a role in this, even though I would say that conscious suffering or unconscious suffering is exactly the same, the only difference is that a conscious being can reflect on the suffering it receives or meats out, and that it can take things personal &#8211; having a persona that self-reflects.</p>
<p>I do see the situation we&#8217;re in as an evolutionary one in which it is decided whether we will remain an important species on this planet or not. As I said in my blog, I&#8217;m sure that a new humanity, even a new world is emerging under pain, and that we are in that labor together &#8211; a situation that your wonderful wife will be in individually soon; that will allow you to appreciate where I&#8217;m coming from in a whole new way; I&#8217;ve been present at the birth of both Roosje and Felix, and I can tell you that NOT being the one who does the birthing can be very taxing indeed <img src='http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I know that you, as a Buddhist, are convinced of the first Noble Truth, that &#8220;birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair are suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.&#8221; And that ypou believe that it is caused by what is stated in the second Noble Truth, that &#8220;&#8230; it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there, that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination.&#8221; And I also know that you are working very hard in your own life to walk the Path that is outlined in the 3rd &amp; 4th Noble Truth. </p>
<p>My outlook, as depicted in this and other recent blogs, differs a little bit in that I do not believe that the cause of suffering is &#8220;clinging&#8221; or attachment and that therefor we can end it by (through any Path) refraining from clinging. I don&#8217;t think that suffering as a cause in the proper sense of, for instance, B is caused by A. The whole type of thinking that attributes all phenomena &#8211; like suffering &#8211; to causes &#8211; like attachment &#8211; was appropriate to that phase of human development (maybe we can call it the &#8216;causal phase&#8217;). In our times we&#8217;ve come to understand a bit more of the enormous complexity of both the physical as the non-physical world and how causal influences are important but equally important are intention, goal (in the sense of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telos_%28philosophy%29">telos</a>), inter-perspective (who is calling on what, and who is answering to what; a force that is part of what I would call the &#8220;Living Field&#8221;) and more.</p>
<p>Becoming conscious, and then being conscious of being conscious &#8211; deeply exploring what it means/is to &#8216;be conscious &#8211; is part of our evolutionary development but this does move, at least that is what I&#8217;m certain of and live from occasionally, beyond consciousness; consciousness is but one fruit on the tree of life and that what we are in truth is &#8216;deeper&#8217; than consciousness. Maybe this understanding helps me in suffering and crying with humanity when that is present for me, and not being too disturbed by the painful birthing process that we&#8217;re going through on this planet&#8230; who knows?</p>
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		<title>By: Margrit</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26173</link>
		<dc:creator>Margrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26173</guid>
		<description>Mushin, this is an amazingly heartfelt, contemplative and soul searching expression. You are a very enlightened writer. I would add if I may, that we all have to travel the path of neti, neti, first - not this, not this in order to sieve out the permanence from the impermanence. Once realized though we do come back to - not only this, not only this! You may recall the 12th century Chinese Ox herding pictures so aptly describe this. Picture 9 - formless awareness is growing back into forms again, without loosing its formlessness, or perfect unitary nature. Picture 10 - entering the market place with helping hands transforming the delusional human world from poison in to nectar. We have all seen that it is only transformation within each of us the will transform our world. The world is nothing but a reflection of us. So, &quot;enlightened teacher&quot; it is up to you/us to radiate and teach, as you/we are doing and the world will be a better place. 
Margrit Bayer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mushin, this is an amazingly heartfelt, contemplative and soul searching expression. You are a very enlightened writer. I would add if I may, that we all have to travel the path of neti, neti, first &#8211; not this, not this in order to sieve out the permanence from the impermanence. Once realized though we do come back to &#8211; not only this, not only this! You may recall the 12th century Chinese Ox herding pictures so aptly describe this. Picture 9 &#8211; formless awareness is growing back into forms again, without loosing its formlessness, or perfect unitary nature. Picture 10 &#8211; entering the market place with helping hands transforming the delusional human world from poison in to nectar. We have all seen that it is only transformation within each of us the will transform our world. The world is nothing but a reflection of us. So, &#8220;enlightened teacher&#8221; it is up to you/us to radiate and teach, as you/we are doing and the world will be a better place.<br />
Margrit Bayer</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention 21st Century Ecology of Life · The Painful Labor of Emergence -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26168</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention 21st Century Ecology of Life · The Painful Labor of Emergence -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 01:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26168</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Rosemary Breen. Rosemary Breen said: From PsychicParanorm 21st Century Ecology of Life · The Painful Labor of Emergence <a href="http://bit.ly/CoU44" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://bit.ly/CoU44'>http://bit.ly/CoU44</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brad4d</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26167</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad4d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26167</guid>
		<description>The basic choice is to be supportive, which is more natural than the critical human that leads to pathology. Does consciousness choose us and we choose to be aware by personal separation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The basic choice is to be supportive, which is more natural than the critical human that leads to pathology. Does consciousness choose us and we choose to be aware by personal separation?</p>
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		<title>By: Wouter</title>
		<link>http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/the-painful-labor-of-emergence/comment-page-1/#comment-26165</link>
		<dc:creator>Wouter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mushin.eu/en/blog/?p=1213#comment-26165</guid>
		<description>Hi Mushin,

I think you are pointing out to much of a specific period of time and specie of the mess we are currently in.  Wars, killings, rapings, distruction and suffering have always been on a massive scale troughout the history of life. I also want to add to this, that these acts are not only specific for the human species. It seems that all living beings on this planet share this same behavior. Dolfins and monkey&#039;s gang raping and killing each other for fun. Insects fighting wars for wealth and teritory. Even to the level of bactarie etc. suffering is a fact. Try to imagine the world dominated by dinosaurs, wars and killings all the time, everywhere! Our another specie for that matter...

The human race is distroing it self with his current behavior to it&#039;s suroundings (most likely so would a different dominant specie) it will take alot of species with it, but the world (life) will survive. So now we have a dilemma. The dominant specie is making a mess, becoming to dominant, so nature will eventually act by making the planet not liveable for humankind. 
Normally I would say this is a good thing, but...;

As human beings we have the ability above all other species on this planet to become conscious. Consciousness together with compasion is the most valuable thing we can achieve. So to be human, to have this potency, to become consious is what makes us valueable. And therefor it would be a shame if it was extinct. So, this is what I think could safe our own asses and maybe much, much more...

Wouter Vlaming</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mushin,</p>
<p>I think you are pointing out to much of a specific period of time and specie of the mess we are currently in.  Wars, killings, rapings, distruction and suffering have always been on a massive scale troughout the history of life. I also want to add to this, that these acts are not only specific for the human species. It seems that all living beings on this planet share this same behavior. Dolfins and monkey&#8217;s gang raping and killing each other for fun. Insects fighting wars for wealth and teritory. Even to the level of bactarie etc. suffering is a fact. Try to imagine the world dominated by dinosaurs, wars and killings all the time, everywhere! Our another specie for that matter&#8230;</p>
<p>The human race is distroing it self with his current behavior to it&#8217;s suroundings (most likely so would a different dominant specie) it will take alot of species with it, but the world (life) will survive. So now we have a dilemma. The dominant specie is making a mess, becoming to dominant, so nature will eventually act by making the planet not liveable for humankind.<br />
Normally I would say this is a good thing, but&#8230;;</p>
<p>As human beings we have the ability above all other species on this planet to become conscious. Consciousness together with compasion is the most valuable thing we can achieve. So to be human, to have this potency, to become consious is what makes us valueable. And therefor it would be a shame if it was extinct. So, this is what I think could safe our own asses and maybe much, much more&#8230;</p>
<p>Wouter Vlaming</p>
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